Thursday, October 27, 2011

Steelhead Fishing the McKenzie River With Dec Hogan

On Sunday October 16th I took out Dec Hogan and his wife Amy on the McKenzie for some fall fly fishing for summer run steelhead. They were coming through from Portland while Dec was visiting his mother, and they were on the way to the Redwoods in Northern California. Amy told me in the boat how she has always wanted to see the Redwoods; so they decided to go for it and they planned some fishing in the mix. While driving down they planned on fishing with me on the McKenzie, and then off to the Trinity River to fish down there for steelhead the next day. What a fun sounding trip, and I was involved in Dec and Amy's game plan (how cool!). The fishing was red hot on the McKenzie the week before, but fishing fell down to "fair to good" status with hanging high pressure weather and low summer levels flowing in the river. Well you can't catch them unless your fly probing in the water for a likely steelhead, and fall is the best time for aggressive fish.

Dec Hogan Fishing a Steelhead Spot Below a heavy set of whitewater - McKenzie River
We started out early in the morning, and we were all alone for the first couple of hours on the water. It was a Sunday morning, and there were not any other anglers out, and my only assumption is that the night game between the Ducks and the Sun Devils caused everyone to put am fishing for steelhead on low priority. That was a plus for us; since we got to fish several spots before anyone was out. The only landed fish of the day came from a spot that we fished before anyone else got to it. It was a nice fish that took a swing egg sucking leech on a floating line. 
Dec Hogan Casting Through A Run On Oregon's McKenzie River for Steelhead
What I was really wanted was to see Dec stick several steelhead, but I had the vibe that it was the kind of steelheading day where you will have to work for each fish. It was not going to be a day where they came to your line, and by day's end you were talking about how "all time" it was. Luckily Dec has done lots of steelheading, and he certainly knows what the sport is all about. He seemed most concerned with Amy getting into a steelhead, and that was going to make his day if she was tight to a chromer.
The One Steelhead of the Day That Stuck on the Hook Long Enough For a Picture
We fished pretty thoroughly, but the fishing session had to be semi short; since they had to head south towards Nor Cal for some Trinity River steelheading, and also to see those giant Redwoods. I was stoked to see the spey casts bombing with grace across the lies of the McKenzie, but I really wanted to see one of their lines yank tight. We fished and fished, and the only sign of success on Dec's part was a fish that boiled on his dry fly. He then switched to a wet fly and went back through the fish's holding area. The fish "snarfed" the fly as Dec stated, but then it long distance released itself back into the river's currents. He was fired up on that take though, and his spark fired me up too. I was fishing hard after the two of them went through the river's probable holding lies.
Dec Hogan & Wife Amy on Oregon's McKenzie River Swinging Through a Probable Steelhead Run
While fishing one of the runs, I approached a ledge of a drop off shelf in a run, and when my fly swung through it, I felt some solid head shakes. Right when I was about to announce the life on the end of my line, it went limp again. Oh well..... Some fish get you only excited enough to keep on fishing even harder for the next tug. I felt another bit of life on two casts later; only to have to fish push enough slack into the line to free itself before feeling its lips getting penetrated by the bronze. It was a day where the fish wanted to play a little bit, but not hard enough to have it come easy. We knew we just needed one to commit a little bit more, and covering the water effectively creates the inevitable probability of a fish striking the fly on the end of your line. We were due for some goodness from the chromers......
Tight looped Cast Unfolding from D-Loop on Snap T Cast - McKenzie River
Time was running down for our outing, and we were in the last spot for the session. It was even at the point where I asked Dec and Amy if they needed to take off on their journey to Northern California, and Dec said we'll fish the spot quickly before bailing south. He asked Amy, and she seemed semi indifferent about fishing more, but then she had a spark to get out and swing the run. It turns out that when I walked upstream to start fishing, I noticed Dec running up to Amy, and I thought to myself how Dec really fished to spot fast. I then noticed Amy's rod stapled to the water with a hard bend in it.
Dec Hogan Patiently Swings Through A Gorgeous Run on Oregon's McKenzie River
She had a fish on, and it seemed like a good one. I was about to run down when I noticed the line ripping off her reel, and a chromer catapulting into the air. It was a large bright steelhead rattling in the air several feet off the surface of the water. When the fish landed back into the drink, the line went slack, as the fish ripped to hook out of it's set position. The fish swam off to its new found freedom, and we all looked at each other with wonder and amazement. Dec ran up to Amy and gave her a sweet hug of stoked appreciation. He was totally fired up, and Amy was really charged up too. We all talked about how awesome that fish was, and how amazing of an aerial it did.

Beautiful tight looped two-handed "Snap T" spey cast - McKenzie River
We decided to then call it a day, and pushed the boat to the take out boat ramp. Dec was stoked on the McKenzie River and its steelhead fishery. He stated how they wanted to come back to fish it again when they had more time. He said how he enjoyed the McKenzie's fishing, and how it was a great day in his opinion; since we all had some steelhead action. I landed a nice fish, and almost could have has another one if it stuck. Dec had one on, but it never quite stuck on the end of the line, and Amy had one hot rocket of a steelhead on also. If everything had stayed on; we all could have went into the boat ramp having landed a steelhead, but that is not the way that fishing goes. That is why it is nice to have people like Dec and Amy that appreciate the fishing and not the catching. I was telling them how much better it can get out there, but they made sure to let me know that they had an amazing time out there; regardless of landing the steelhead that wanted to play.
The Prized Reward from Swinging Wet Flies - McKenzie River in Oregon
Dec Hogan has a line of wonderful spey rods made by Rajeff Sports called Echo Dec Hogan Spey Rods. He has also written an amazing book called A Passion for Steelhead. He had contributed so many wonderful fly patterns and teaches two handed seminars all around. He is one of the main innovative contributors to modern North American two handed spey casting, and he loves to share every ounce of that with anyone who is interested in it. You need to read his stuff and try out his rods!

When I first met Dec Hogan back last spring, he really came off as an amazing person that everyone should have to meet. He is one of those people that is super nice, full of positive energy, and simply wants to help everyone out with anything he possibly can. He also has some really cool fly fishing philosophies, and his steelheading philosophy is totally awesome. He feels that you can fish on your terms, and if the fish wants to come to play on your terms, then that connection is made, and that is what it is all about. That is at least my interpretation of his steelheading philosophy, and when I saw how stoked he was on fishing that Sunday morning; I realized it was totally authentic. We fished on our terms all morning, and we connected with several fish, and only one came to hand. We succeeded since we got some fish to pursue our flies on the lines we chose to fish with. If you think of how awesome it is to have a fish that is not actively eating to gain interest in what you are presenting to it, and then to leave it's holding lie to then eat your fly. That is the hardest part of the task without a doubt! Fishing with Dec and Amy was totally awesome, and I hope to be able to fish with them again sometime soon. Tight Lines!!!

Wednesday, October 26, 2011

Another Fine Day of Trout Fishing With Steelhead Bonus!

As of yesterday, it was the 4th consecutive trout trip in a row with a steelhead incidentally caught on it. The difference of this trip was that we got the fish on within 100+ yards of the boat ramp, and it was Bruce's first fish of the day. Another funny thing about the fish was that he was fishing with a 7'6" 3wt for fun, and we joked at the boat ramp about what would happen if a steelhead decided to eat one of the wet flies on the 3wt. Well it happened to occur right away and we got that task out of the way. Bruce ended up fighting and landing the fish about as long as it would have taken on an appropriate steelhead rod.
Summer Steelhead on 3wt Rod taken on swung October Caddis Pupa Wet Fly

Rather Large Fish For Echo 3wt Fly Rod (approximate 8# Steelhead)
We hooked up with another steelhead for a couple of head shakes while actually steelheading a spot, and the fish took a purple motion prawn. We also hooked up with another steelhead fishing a 5wt rigged with a dry and dropper and the fish took the nymph (possie bugger). It was a brief encounter before the fish popped the 4X tippet and swam off with the beadhead in its possession. Trout fishing was the focus of this trip, but we brought a couple of steelhead rods for a few spots.
Foggy Morning Fly Fishing - Willamette River
The day started out cold and foggy, but bugs were abound and feeding fish were showing themselves on the surface. We saw blue winged olives, smaller caddis, pale morning duns, and some October Caddis. The big bugs were not too frequent on this day compared to the last several times I was out, and I speculated the cold weather was holding them back.
Possie Bugger Nymph in this Cutthroat Trout's Grill
We got into some nice cutthroats throughout the day, and many of the larger ones were taking the dry and dropper presentations. The wet flies got a lot of attention throughout the day, and the fish were paying attention to everything we threw to them from blue winged olive softhackles, yellow softhackles, October Caddis pupa patterns, and some other softhackles too. We had moments where the fish were really into what you threw to them, and some lulls in action also. The weather went from cold and windy to cold and windier.
Trout Splashing Down - Willamette River
We did have times where the wind would calm down, and we would feel a bit warmer, and the trout action would keep us entertained. A lot of fish on the ends of the fly lines, and they were fighting very well. We expected a afternoon bug hatch with fish all over the surface, but it never seemed to pan out. We saw some bugs come off and fish started to look up, but then it ceased when you thought it would get going.
Trout on! Oregon's Willamette River
We fished until the evening started to set in, and then we called it a day. Plenty of fish caught, and plenty of consistent action throughout the day. Fall fishing remains hot with plenty of trout and steelhead action. Who knows how long the weather will hold out until the winter rains crush our fall fun. I know I have certainly been enjoying the fun fall fishing we have been having. I hope you are getting out there too!
October Caddis Pupa Wet Fly
Standard Nice Willamette River Cutthroat Trout

Thursday, October 20, 2011

Fall Trout Fishing Was Totally On Fire!!! - Along with Steelhead Bonus!

Yesterday I ran a fall trout trip for two regulars, and we completely got into them BIG TIME! The fishing was off the hook, and I mean the best day you could possibly have out there. We even lucked out with an incidentally caught steelhead on a 8.5' five weight rod on a #10 orange softhackle. We almost had a huge steelhead eat a 9" fat rainbow when Rose was about to land it. I saw the fish slash at the trout like a shark, and Dave and I yelled to leave the trout hanging out there to see if the fish would wolf it down. It slashed on the surface with a toilet flushing boil, but it never quite committed to the swirling trout. I even had Dave swing a leech to the fish, and it slashed at the offering two times before disappearing out of the picture. That is the third time in my life that I have witnessed a steelhead trying to go after a fish being reeled in. At first I thought bull trout, and then you can see the colors of a large male steelhead. Craziness!
Bald Eagle Perched Above Willamette River
The first hot line ripping fin clipped "half pounder" like steelhead of the day
Besides catching lots and lots of rainbows and cutthroats, we had several fish that were hot as a rocket with airs and line ripping runs. They turned out to be immature steelhead that were fin-clipped and they had an ocean freshness look about them. I decided to clean one, and gutted it to see that it had orange sea run flesh to it. We'll see how it tastes tonight when I try it out. How strange that the Willamette River has a little surge of strange little "half pounder" steelhead that have come up it. We happened to hooked into about four or five of them, and they were hot fish that perplexed me for why they were there. Just shows what you see when you are out there all of the time.....
This Fall Caddis Pupa Pattern Swung Down & Across Was A Hot Ticket
Swinging wet flies was super productive, and we took fish on a #18 blue winged olive softhackle, a #14 yellow softhackle, a #10 orange softhackle, and a #10 October Caddis Pupa. Never had to change the flies all day from what I had showed up with from the start of the trip.
 Admiring the Hot Powerful Willamette River Immature Half Pounder Type Steelhead
  Fishing with a foam bodied fall caddis dry fly with a possie bugger nymph in a #10 was also super productive. We caught fish all day long on that set up from the start to the end, and the fish were eating the nymph with a little bit more frequency throughout the day, but the dry fly had plenty of attention, and some of the biggest trout of the day were on the dry fly.
One of Several Doubles Where Two Fish Took Each of the Two Flies
Doubles happened several times, and they seemed to occur when the "bite" was really on fire. It would be so good where I would have them bringing the lines back in to go on to the next spot, and a double would happen when trying to have that be the "last cast" in the spot. Then we would get another double on the next "last cast". It was like you practically couldn't keep them off the end of your line.
Rose Showing Off Another Fine Willamette River Double Catch on One Cast
Just when you thought things couldn't get any better; then whammo!    Steelhead On!! The fish was hot as a rocket, with so many line ripping runs on the 5wt. We had it in a great spot to fight it, and Rose battled the fish until it yielded to the net. We were all so STOKED!! What a day to have experienced!
This Willamette River Steelhead Was Taken on a #10 Orange Softhackle on a 8.5' 5wt Fly Rod
How can you beat being all alone on a river, with fish biting on everything you are giving to them throughout the entire day from start to finish. All sizes of trout from small to as nice as they come on the Willamette River, and filled with Cutthroats, Rainbows, and a Steelhead to put the icing on the cake. Fall is so awesome!!
One of the Many Gorgeous Coastal Cutthroats - Willamette River
As long as the weather holds up, we will have wonderful fishing opportunities abound. Don't miss the best fishing of the 2011 calender year. This fall is proving to have the best fishing of the year!!
Dave checking out another fin-clipped half pounder type immature steelhead

Sunday, October 16, 2011

Fall Trout Fishing Report - More Bows and Cutts

This past Friday, I ran a trip for two wonderful clients for trout on the McKenzie River. Last year they did a fall steelhead trip; so they decided to try out some fall trout action. Unfortunately, the fish were not wanting to feed with reckless gluttony, but we worked at it with persistence. By day's end, we managed to rack up enough trout with significant shoulders to rate it a good day of fall trout fishing. We did not even get any fish on dries; with the exception of one fish that was a legitimate "cuttbow". It had red fins with white tips like a rainbow trout, but it had a cutthroat paint job, and had the scales of a cutty also. The fish fought with a rainbow's attitude, but crushed the fly like a silly cutthroat. It was a very unique looking specimen for that part of the river.
October Caddis Dry Fly Took This Beautiful Cuttbow Trout - Rainbow/Cutthroat Hybrid
We fished with a dry and dropper nymph, and the nymph took some nice fish here and there. The most productive method was swinging softhackled wet flies on a 45 degree down and across swing. We caught fish on size 18 blue winged olive softhackles, size 14 yellow softhackles, size 10 orange softhackles, and surface october caddis pupas. The smaller softhackles took most of the fish, but the larger ones worked well at times.
McKenzie River Rainbow Trout - Taken on Possie Bugger Nymph
We managed to hook up with a steelhead on a size 14 yellow softhackle, but the 4X tippet was no match for the fish. The powerful fish was on briefly before it decided to pop the tippet like it was a spider web. That was the second consecutive trout trip with an incidental steelhead hooked up. Makes you wonder how many fish are still headed up the Willamette Valley tributaries....

As long as the weather holds up, the fishing will remain good!

Saturday, October 8, 2011

McKenzie River Slam While Trout Fishing

This past Thursday, we floated the McKenzie for trout, and ended up having a wonderful day out there. The day had a pleasant surprise that ended up making it a totally memorable one. We were swinging wet flies under the surface film, and the trout were responding quite well to the presentations. We caught rainbows consistently throughout the day, and there was not much of a bug hatch while we were out on the water. We also fished with a large October Caddis dry fly and a Possie Bugger nymph dropped off of it, and that was not the best producer this day, but it usually works very well throughout the fall.
A nice 15" Coastal Cutthroat taken on a yellow softhackle in the Surface Film
 The first fish to make the "slam" criteria was a fine 15" coastal cutthroat that tore up a yellow softhackle pattern swung down and across in the surface film. The McKenzie River cutts do not get much bigger than 15"; so I was totally stoked to see that gorgeous fish. It was quite the scrapper too, making a few little runs and jumping clear out of the water several times.
 Hot Turbo Charge McKenzie River Rainbow Trout Taken on a October Caddis Pupa
 The next fish to count towards the "slam" was a fine 15" rainbow that hit a swung October Caddis pupa pattern in the surface film. The fish ripped Lance up nicely, as he commented on the fish's strength and long battle that would not cease. We admired the hard bodied rainbow before releasing it back to continue its piscatorial pursuits. Little did we know that the fishing would yield a super awesome bonus that would make the day one hard for Lance to forget.
Chrome bright 33" steelhead taken on a 8'6" 5wt fly rod on a swung October Caddis pupa
We were coming through a nice run/flat and the swung October Caddis pupa came tight with a solid grab. I commented that the fish was probably the best of the day, when suddenly the water erupted with a chrome bright steelhead. I freaked out with stoked excitement! We fought the fish for a couple of hundred yards to luckily come upon a nice gravel bar beach to be able to finish the battle off. The fish eventually yielded to a long battle filled with several hard runs. It was a 33" chromer that was on its way up the river and Lance's fly happened to intercept its coarse up the river. What a bonus!

It is awesome how you see pleasant surprises on the river, and fall can fill you with many good times while fly fishing in Oregon. Tight Lines!!!

Steelhead Fly Fishing Class Reminder

This Sunday October 9th, I will be teaching a steelhead fly fishing class on the Clackamas River up at McIver Park. There are still available spots left for people to participate in the class; so you can email me at, call me at (541)232-6360, or stop by the Orvis Store in Bridgeport Village to sign up. 

Thursday, October 6, 2011

It's Salmon Time!

With the last few days of rains, river levels on the coast have spiked up, and are on the drop now. The first major salmon fishing in the fresh water reaches of the coastal rivers should be in full effect.
Nice Chrome Bright Ocean Fresh Coho Salmon caught while dead drifting a slot
Fishing for Chinook and Coho Salmon will be good on many of the coastal rivers for the next several weeks, and it is all about being at the right place at the right time. You have to find a spot that concentrates the fish through bottle necks in the river, or pools that the fish accumulate and rest in. Once you find the spot, it is better to stick there and fish until waves of fish pass through. You will have red hot action for minutes, and then it will cease for minutes again until the next slug of fish pass through. Many days, your rod is folded over with a fish on more than you are actually fishing. What a dilemma to have......fighting fish and having fish on for large portions of the fishing session.
Chrome Bright Chinook Salmon Fresh From the Salt taken on a swung and retrieved wet fly
Fishing methods for river salmon range from swinging small sparse wet flies, retrieving sparse wet flies, or dead drifting slots and bottle necks with egg pattens and heavier wet flies. Fishing techniques are best dictated by the type of water that you are fishing in, and also to some extent how far up the river you are fishing. Conversely, you do not want to fish too far up many of the rivers; since the fish turn fast in the fall into their spawning mode. They should be left alone to take care of their business once they are higher up in the rivers. Most of the rivers have regulations set up where they are open only where the fish will be in their prime, and they are closed above those stretches for the fish to be able to reproduce successfully without any angling pressure.
Chrome Bright Fall Chinook Salmon Taken on a egg pattern on a central coast river

Fall salmon fly fishing is a super enjoyable way to spend a day before the nasty winter weather really kicks in. It is all about timing and being at the right place at the right time, but when you line up those conditions, you will experience some amazing power of fish right out of the Pacific Ocean. Get yourself out there!!

Wednesday, October 5, 2011

Brook Trout Break From Steelheading

Yesterday, we took a drive up to a high lake to fish for some brook trout; while checking out some gorgeous stops and mushroom hunting for chanterelles. The weather was nice before last night's rains came in, and the fishing was silly. You can see hundreds of brookies swimming around everywhere, and giving a slow strip retrieve to a wet fly was the hot ticket. The fish were totally gorgeous with their fall spawning colors, and many of the males had crimson bellies. They were like little painted trout.
Brook Trout are Fun Scrappers on many of Oregon's High Lakes
I had never caught brook trout in Oregon yet, but I did grow up on the East Coast; where I caught them as a child. After a couple of hours on the water, I caught enough brook trout to make up for the lack of catching them since my childhood. It was a pleasant surprise to see what scrappers these beautiful little fish were. I assumed that they would be more sluggish like a brown or a cutthroat compared to a Oregon rainbow trout, but they were solid scrappers. I could say that these brookies fought very well, and they were super aggressive. At times we were catching them over and over, and then it would turn off for a few minutes; only to turn back on again with fish rising under the film to emerging flies.
This Brook Trout Has One Awesome Paint Job!!
Not a bad way to spend an afternoon after witnessing Nikki hook 2 steelhead and land them both, and I landed one steelhead also. Fall is too fun, and there is way too many good fly fishing opportunities abound. What a good problem to have!!

Monday, October 3, 2011

Fall Steelheading is Game On!!

Happy Angler With First Steelhead Caught - Taken on Egg Pattern Dead Drifted Under Indicator
The first major fall freshet has fallen, and it has filled the rivers with new flowing water. That has caused the fish to orient themselves into a upriver migratory mode, and that in turn has caused to "bite" to be awesome. Today, I took Nikki's father Lance out, and we got into steelhead in a great way! I had 9 legitimate steelhead grabs, and hooked up with 7 fish, and I landed 4 steelhead that were all in great shape. Lance had two on and landed them both; with one taking a swung fly, and the other taking a egg pattern behind some spawning salmon. The fish were taking both swung flies and dead drifted flies off on a strike indicator; so fish can be taken with a variety of methods as of this point in the run.
This Steelhead Was Taken on a Egg Sucking Stonefly Nymph
Fish are really being influenced by spawning spring chinook, and they are totally keyed into the eggs drifting below the redds. The other thing is to make sure that people are being ethical out there; with all of the spawning fish around. Many people hook up with spawned out chinook, and it is "our" responsibility to inform people that they should break the fish off on purpose if they are incidentally hooked. It is funny because you will never hook up with these spawning fish; if you fish for steelhead properly. Always be on the lookout for the cleaned off gravel redds, and the spawning fish. They are very obvious, and stay away from them. On the flip side, look downstream of the spawning fish, and you will often see steelhead below gorging on eggs and nymphs kicked up from the fish spawning.
First Swing Caught Steelhead Taken on a Black Egg Sucking Leech
Steelhead fishing should remain good with days of stellar fishing littered around until the winter flows take over, and cause us to focus our fishing elsewhere. If you want to experience the fall summer steelhead fishing at its best part of the run call me at (541)232-6360 or email me at to set up a guided trip. The best summer steelhead fly fishing is yet to come!!

Saturday, October 1, 2011

Fly Fishing McKenzie River 2011 Video Clip

Check out this video clip of McKenzie River highlights for the 2011 fly fishing season. There are clips of trout and steelhead fly fishing from the lower river to the upper river. Filming is from the spring through the early summer; so there is none of the hot fall trout and steelhead fishing that is around the corner. Enjoy the video clips!!

If you are interested in experiencing the hottest fall fishing for trout or steelhead on the McKenzie River then email me at or call me at (541)232-6360.

More Information on Fly Fishing Class - "Steelhead Fly Fishing"

On October 9th, I will be conducting a class on steelhead fly fishing on the Clackamas River. I have gotten many emails about the class; so I am going to explain what the class is all about.

This will be a 4 hour "on the water" steelhead fly fishing class. It will not be a "fishing trip" and you will most likely not catch a steelhead during it (although it is possible); since the focus of it will be that it is a class. It will be about techniques and there will be demonstrations on the water. 6 people will be allowed into the class, and the main requirement is that you already know the basics of fly fishing. You can call this class a 301 Steelhead Fly Fishing Class; because in a 101 Fly Fishing you would be learning how to cast and tie knots. A 201 Fly Fishing Class would be some basic fly fishing techniques, and this 301 class is the next step after that.

For anyone who is interested in steelhead fly fishing, and wants to know about fishing techniques, equipment to use, tippet strengths, fly choices, when to do what, and what to do when; then this is the class for you. We are going to learn about swinging wet flies, skating dry flies, dead drifting flies, single handed rod uses, spey casting basics (and uses), switch rod basics (and uses), reading water, cracking the myths, etc, etc....The class is designed so you can go on your own to a steelhead fishery, and you will know what to do while you are out there to fish properly for steelhead with a fly rod.

I will be doing demonstrations, and I will be picking class members to participate in them. You will be both watching demonstrations, and you will be participating in them too. It is not a steelhead fishing trip, but you will be learning steelhead fly fishing techniques; so you can go out on your own and you can become a proficient steelhead fly fisher.

Class Will Meet At the Lower Boat Ramp at McIver State Park (Click for link)

-Class will run from 10am-2pm (meet at 9:45am to get waders on and get ready for class to start at 10am)

 -Class costs $100 per person

-Students will have to have their own waders, boots, sunglasses, license (appropriate tags), and rain jacket (if needed)

-I will supply equipment for the class, but I recommend that you bring a rod for steelhead fishing if you already have one. 

-a notepad and pen can be helpful for taking notes

-Class is limited to 6 Students (email or call to sign up - don't assume it is filled up -plenty of spaces available)

Clackamas River Steelhead Taken on swung articulated leech pattern

If you are interesting in signing up for this class, email me at or call me at (541)232-6360. You can also sign up at the Orvis Shop at Bridgeport Village (7495 SW Bridgeport Road Tigard, OR 97224 - Phone: 503-598-7680) if that is more convenient for you.